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tv   Charlie Rose  PBS  May 27, 2016 12:00am-1:01am PDT

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>> rose: welcome to the program. we begin this evening with politics and the continuing conversation about hillary clinton's e-mails. we're joined by amy chozick and steven lee myers of "the new york times." >> i talk to voters all over the country. and whenever they say i don't trust hillary clinton. i ask them why. and i hear one word, e-mails. they might not understand the nuances of the inspector general's report or how she skirted federal records requests, they might not care about that. but it's adding to this narrative that republican, of course, have helped shape, that she can't be trusted. and i think that is filtering down and it is impacting the electorate in ways that are not good for the clinton campaign. >> rose: we continue with mike allen of "politico" and the playbook. >> on paper, secretary clinton is still the favorite. secretary clinton has history on her side, demographics on her side, resume experience on her
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side. and so that's that missing ingredient of the emotional connection. but that is how we vote. >> rose: emotion. >> it goes back to, i sometimes think of life as a student council election. back in the lunchroom, you didn't vote for the kid with the better platform. you voted for tom because you liked him. that is how elections are. >> rose: we continue with david saninger of "the new york times" talking about president obama's trip to asia, an interview recorded before the president's trip to hiroshima. >> the trick here is to try to draw, use the chinese aggressiveness to play off of the insecurities of these countries and make sure that they recognize that it's the united states with whom they've got the best long-term possibilities. >> rose: we conclude with saoirse ronan stars on broadway in "the crucible." she's someone who is very
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self-assured, even though she's only 16, 17. she's-- she's kind of wise for her years in some way, i think. and she stands and she can stand on her own quite well. and there are so many different scenarios within the play where i actually come face to face with one of the main male characters. and sort of talk them down. and so that's the type of young girl she is. >> rose: politics, foreign policy and broadway when we continue. >> funding for carlie rose is provided by the following: and by bloomberg, a provider of multimedia news and information services worldwide.
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captioning sponsored by rose communications from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. >> rose: we begin this evening with politics and a report delivered to congress yesterday. the state department's inspector general criticized hillary clinton's e-mails. the report said clinton violated government policies in using a private e-mail account as secretary of state. critics are asking why she did not seek permission to use it and why she refused to cooperate with the inspector general's investigation. clinton has yet to respond to the report herself. at a campaign event in anaheim last night donald trump capitalized on the news. >> she is as crooked as they come. she had a little bad news today, as you know, from some reports came down, weren't so good. but not so good, inspector general's report, not good. >> rose: the fbi's investigation continues. clinton has said she would be willing to sit for an interview. the news also comes as bernie sanders closes in on clinton's
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lead in california. amy chozick of "the new york times" joins us from "the new york times" bureau. she say political reporter who focuses on clinton and from washington steven lee myers of the times. i'm pleased to have both of them back on this program. let me begin with this question. where are we if day two of this story. >> well, you know, i think the clinton campaign faces a central challenge. and that is her trust numbers. and the latest new york times poll, 64% of registered voters said they did not trust hillary clinton. that is the same amount as donald trump. and i think they're wondering how do we overcome that, that central challenge has collided with this new report that is, you know, in some ways very damning. and i think the most damnk because you play that clip of donald trump, it plays right into the narrative that he is trying to craft of her, as crooked, as not being trust worthy, as finding ways ways tot around the rules. >> rose: steven lee myers, what do you think, day two. >> i think a lot of people are still digesting the report. the report is only one of several that are coming.
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judicial watch, a conservative watchdog group is doing depositions now, seeking more information about why she created this private server. who knew about it. what were the security risks involved, on top of the fbi investigation which is also coming down the pike. so i think the inspector general's report as critical as it was is only the first in what is bowdged to be more troamps surrounding her use of the server. >> rose: are you surprised by the response? i mean you would think that they would want to put this behind them. but if, in fact, you are answering in a way that makes people question your response, you're not putting it behind you. >> you know, i think that all along through the campaign they have tried to play this down, saying that this was something that previous secretaries of had done specifically, colin powell, that is using an e-mail account. but what the inspector general's report did was undercut some of the justifications or
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explanations that they have made, that she herself has made. that this was not approved by the state department's security and records management officials. and that she hadn't asked. if she had asked, it would not have been approved. and the report and all the details included in it makes it clear that it was created an awkward situation for people in the department too to try to accommodate this server. not everybody knew about it. and you see situations where people were trying to figure out how to work around that. and that added, i think, to some of the surprise that came out of this report. these weren't things that we knew. and it did suggest that there was more of an effort to avoid the scrutiny of the e-mails, that would be expected of official records. >> do you believe amy that she knew it would not be approved? >> i believe that she-- there is a line in there that says that she-- an aid expresses concern about the private server.
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she says she is willing to get a second device or an official e-mail address just as long as the personal never gets out. so i think that, you know, that line to me was particularly damning. it seemed to, you know, add into people's perception that she was keeping this private server to keep her correspondent private. and as steven said, other secretaries of state have done that. colin powell has done that. of course he is not running for president against an opponent who is very much trying to craft him as, quote, crooked. and to also to steven's point, they have tried to put this behind them. last summer the e-mails dogged their campaign, you remember. and she finally offered this very belabored apology. she had said, i'm sorry. people are confused for ages. finally that looked like it wasn't going to cut it. and she finally apologized but, you know, it's almost aier later and it's still haunting her candidacy. >> rose: is there division within the clirch ton campaign as to what to-- clinton campaign as to what to do about this? >> i think they're trying to figure it out as they go. there is a lot of division in terms of trying to confront
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trump and how much you sort of play into him. but i think steven is right, they have been trying to downplay it, say that every secretary of state has done this. that it was nothing outside the usual practice. >> rose: you would think that she would want to sit there, almost like the laid geraldine ferraro did and answer every question and sort of exhaust the thing. >> or as she did in her famous pretty in pink press conference over the cattle futures. >> rose: exactly. >> right. but remember, she did that. and before she started running, she had that press conference at the united nations with just an onslawt of questions about the e-mails and she gave very sort of cautious legal responses. that press conference did not go over well. people said she looked defensive. it didn't, obviously, we're still talking about it. it didn't do much to squelch all of the criticism. and so i'm sure they're wondering what benefit is one of those press conferences when we tried that. >> rose: steven, what is she most-- what can she most hope for in this? show that some other bigger story would come along and knock this off the front page? >> i think because of the legal
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processes that are under way, the fbi investigation, a number of court hearings into freedom of information requests for additional information about the e-mails. i think the best she could hope for is that there are no more revelations about what was known and who knew it when. the, you know, there are serious questions raised in the inspector general's report about adhering to federal law, to the guide lines for preserving records, for taking security precautions. there is an e-mail that went out under her name that they site talking about the risk of using your person 58 e-mail and conducting personal business even as she was continuing to do that throughout her tenure. i think the best that they could hope for at this point is that nothing more scarring than-- coming out than what has already. >> rose: i assume that they would hope also that if the fbi report comes out and she testified which will be obviously a huge amount of attention, that the fbi will come out with a report that in a
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sense suggests that she did nothing, that nothing that was damaging in terms of national security or the like. amy, help me out, steven, help me out. >> i would say one of her strongest points ever in this campaign was when she sat down for 13 hours of testimony in the benghazi hearing. >> rose: exactly. >> so if pressed to answer questions and do so publicly, i think that's actually a good fore mat for her. it makes voters think she is being transparent. she is being bullied. you know, she walked away from benghazi the winner. >> that was very much seen as a polit sized hearing, even a partisan display from both sides. the fbi investigation, it's going to be hard to portray that that way. because i think-- and it also won't be public. they won't put out a report necessarily. they will make a recommendation to the department of justice on whether or not they believe any crimes were committed.
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and it will be up to justice to decide whether or not to bring any cases. that can go any number of ways. some of them could be incredible nightmares for the campaign. but even the fact of an interview with the fbi in the middle of a presidential campaign certainly is not a good optic for the campaign. and so i am sure they're going to hope that the fbi decides that there were no crimes committed. and at this point we don't know what they're going to do. >> yeah, steven makes a good point. so much of the clinton's campaign's response has been her republican adversaries are blowing this out of proportion to hurt her during a political season. the report yesterday was particularly damning because it wasn't from a partisan-- it was from her own state department. >> rose: can bernie sanders win california? >> it was looking impossible until very recently. we have just gotten new polling that shows that they are in a dead heat in california. i till think he is the underdog there. she has a deep reservoir of support. but you know, the clinton campaign had intended to shift all of its resources into the general election by this point.
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and they said that they will be going on air with ads in california. this was sort of unheard of a few weeks ago when we thought that everything was going to be pushed to ohio, florida, you know, pennsylvania, places where they're ready to take on trump. >> rose: and what about trump and sanders in a debate? >> that would be fun. donald trump just said in his press conference that he would do it for charity if they raise 10 million dollars for charity, he would debate bernie, and for bernie, you know, that campaign is having some money problems. california is their last stand. i think they're looking for free media. and what could be more free media than debating donald trump. >> rose: thank you, amy. thank you. >> thanks. >> rose: thank you, steven. >> thank you. >> rose: we'll be right back. stay with us. we begin the week with politics. hillary clinton's private e-mail server is back in the news. there have been more incidents of violence at donald trump rallies and there may be one more debate before the california primaries. but it's not one that everybody
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expected. mike all sen here with that and more. he is the chief white house correspondent for "politico" and the editor of the play book blog. as always we're thrilled to him him here. welcome. >> thank you for having me at the table. >> rose: here's what we know. we know that donald trump has reached enough delegates. >> big trump. >> rose: when will hillary clinton reach the same point? >> well, charlie, this is the amazing reversal of fortune. remember when this process started, we thought that there was one vy able democrat and 17 republicans, three, four, five, six viable ones. and now she's having to go till the very end. bernie sanders, pushing her. bernie sanders looking stronger, getting more coverage. last weekend the great saturday night live segment where you had hillary clinton and bernie sanders in a bar, at closek time. and sanders wouldn't leave. that was the great setup. >> rose: what is wrong with the clinton campaign?
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>> is it the candidates? >> the clinton campaign needs excitement. and there's such an excitement deficit between trump and her. and what is a dilemma for secretary clinton is stediness, seriousness, cautiousness, is her brand. and you would assume that in these times, that's what people want. >> rose: perfect anecdote to donald trump. >> yes. but it's not. so you can remember see saying this fall, to you, when we have the summer of trump and the fall of trump, i used to say, you know, at any moment something could happen in the world that would remind people this is a real job. and then we have the attack in paris. and trump went up. and so people want or at least a large number of voters who-- now the two of them are tied in national polls. something that is none of us saw
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coming. interestingly enough, the white house didn't see it coming. we're talking to them the other day. they were surprised by how quickly it's become a neck and neck race and by how quickly republicans have mostly closed ranks behind trump. >> rose: let's look at this in a bigger way. you said to me on the phone earlier today, this fore tells the next five months. >> absolutely. >> rose: so we saw donald trump, no guard rails. the gorilla campaign, putting out an instagram, making accusations against bill clinton, that no one has. and a decade. a picture of bill clinton with a significant ar and-- sigar telling the wash ton post that he is going to start looking into conspiracy theories. >> rose: vince foster. >> yes, yes. so that's-- for the clinton campaign, do you respond. if you don't, you're accused of micking the swift boat mistake.
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but the other side of that coin is you could spend the next five months talking about things that you don't want to talk about, that you don't want to remind voters of. >> rose: and you don't want to become donald trump. >> right. >> rose: by trying to attack him the same way he is attacking her because marco rubio tried that and it didn't work for him. >> that will be tempting. so when the egyptair plane went down and donald trump right away tweeted there was terrorism, at the time we didn't know ma what it was. >> and still don't know. >> exactly. but then you saw hillary clinton talking about the plane and terrorism. so she doesn't want to look weak. and so how to look strong and not play trump's game is really difficult, needle to thread. and they have not yet cracked that code. >> here is the interesting thing. i have friends of mine that are politically savey say if there was a major terrorism event in this country, it would play into trump's hands. >> he is going to play the
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security. this will be his message. i guarantee. he will talk about him being a family man and interestingly enough ds-- . >> rose: he has a good argue. >> yes, with kids. family man, pragmatic businessman and he's going to appeal to security moms. and he will project strength at a time that people want-- . >> rose: i thought we said that was her. careful, serious with a big resume. >> has been there, yes. has been there. >> rose: that was the ads you ran against obama. without do you want answering the phone at 3 a.m. >> so that's why on paper, secretary clinton is still the favorite. secretary clinton has hisry on her side. she has demographics on her side. she has resume experience on her side. and so that missing ingredient, the emotional connection. but that is how we vote. like-- and it goes back to like i sometimes think of life as a student council election. and back in the lunchroom, you didn't vote for the kid with the better platform. you voted for tom because you
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liked him. and that's how elections are. >> rose: so when you look at it today, du find an polls mights indicate this, more and more people who say yes, yes, donald trump could win this thing. >> oh, no question. charlie, i have said for awhile that he had around a 30% chance. that's rising am we saw that in the poles-- polls that have them basically tied. we see that in so many republicans who are finding a way to endorse him or they say they're going to support him but not endorse him or vice versa. but so many republicans are coming home. and we're seeing hillary clinton doesn't yet have the blup print for firing back. so if we are to flash forward and donald trump wins this election, which again for mainly for demographic reasons and map reasons, seems unlikely. >> rose: it is a steep climb. >> sure. >> we're talking about the "politico" staff that says that
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donald trump would need to win seven of ten in white dudes including democrats. >> rose: and at the same time, they point out that hillary clinton has a long way to go to win the bernie sanders supporters. cuz they will are exit polls that say that they feel strongly against her, even to the point of some saying they will vote for donald trump. >> i think this will be a big story in coming weeks. the bernie bros going to trump. because it's the-- middle finger vote. it's the people who were just on the outside, they were irritated. they don't like what they're hearing. they don't trust the system. and if senator sanders goes off in the sunset which we expect him to do after the convention, they are going to be taking a look at donald trump. and union members, not union leaders, but union members as you know, distrust the clintons
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because of trade, because of nafta. and so i don't think there is a lot of democrats that are actually going to pull a lever for donald trump. but some will. and it complicates the math. it is why both the math and the map are so screwy this time. because like the industrial rust belt, blue clar states, usually you can count on going for democrats, michigan, wisconsin, pennsylvania, those are in play for trump. but then usually some classic red states like georgia and arizona with rising hispanic populations, those he could lose. so the chess board is moved. >> rose: thank you for coming. >> thank you for having me. happy memorial day. >> rose: we now turn to president obama's trip to asia. earlier this week the president visited vietnam where he lifted a decades old arms embargo. he then headed to the g-7 summit in japan. he plans to make an historic advicity to hiroshima on friday. joining plea now from washington
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is david saninger, of "the new york times." he recently returned from traveling with the president. i'm pleased to have him back on this program. david, thank you for doing this. i think you just got off a plane as we taped this, hours before. so thank you for coming by. give me. >> good to be with you. >> give me the overview of this trip. put it in context, part of it is legacy building. part of it is reminding america that he is constantly talking about the importance of asia. >> that's right, charlie. i think the two big parts of this trip are the vietnam side which is what he did the beginning part of the week, which was the first time he had gone to vietnam, and was important because he is trying to wrap vietnam into the overall strategy of the asian pivot. and that has been all about drawing out countries like myanmar. i was there with secretary kerry last weekend. vietnam where we have had diplomatic relations for the
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past 21 years. but we haven't really deepened the relationship. and we try to get vietnam, the philippines, others in the region to all participate in this effort to jointly contain the chinese without making the chinese view it as containment. and it's not an easy, it is not an easy trick as you can imagine. because on the one hand, he's trying to engage the chinese, say we understand, we need to work as partners and so forth. and yet he is using the fact that the chinese have been so aggressive in the south china sea, to help draw in asian nations that have not been traditional allies, that have been very reluctant partners at times. back into the american fold. and so if you juster look around the region, he ended uplifting the arms embargo on vietnam which has been in place since the 60st. back then it was on north
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vietnam. he has-- is hoping that he is going to have some access to comeron bay, obviously a very big port during the time of the vietnam war. he is negotiating with the philippines about getting access to bases that we were thrown out of 20, 25 years ago when i was a correspondent in asia, and that we never thought we would have access to again. he has already got a deal with the australians to have some access to dar win. and that means that what he is hoping to do is keep american forces engaged in, and in new places around the south china sea where they're constantly going to be in china's face. >> rose: is there a specific message to the chinese that if you go this far, we will respond both the united states and its allies? >> i think the message is a little more subtle than that. each of these countries recognizes they need to have a relationship with china.
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the trade relationship they have with china is bigger than the trade relationship they have with the u.s. in many of the cases. and it's part of why the president spent so much time making a case for the transpacific partnership. although the case he needs to make has to be with congress and with all three of the surviving presidential candidates, all of whom declared they're against the deal. more so than with the 11 asian nations that the u.s. negotiated with. >> it's fair to say that vietnam and some of these countries welcome this because they're very wary of chinese intentions over the long run. >> that's right. and so the trick here is to try to draw, use the chinese aggressiveness to play off of the insecurities of these countries and make sure that they recognize that it is the united states with whom they've got the best long-term
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pobilities. now what's running against this, of course, is the domestic politics here. and they read "the new york times." they watch your show and cnn and all that. and they see donald trump up talking about how rerelationships in the region including the american troop presence should be based on whether or not these countries are financially contributing. now you could argue for a moment about whether the japanese and the south koreans who already contribute a lot could contribute more. but certainly what is missing from the trump argument right now is the case that the u.s. itself has an interest in the region and for its own reasons, may well want to have a presence. and so these countries are extraordinarily nervous that the asian pivot that the president has talked so much about, may go away on january 20th, 2017. >> rose: well, but the president has gone to europe and said look, there can be no free
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riders here. and he also, as you point out, has made clear that the relationship is strong and that we're interested in them and we listen to them. but at the same time, there can't be any free rides. i assume he made some of that message in asia when he talked to the vietnamese and the japanese and when he talked to the south koreans. >> right, you're not going to get the money out of vietnam. it's just not there. >> right. >> what you are going to get is the access. and same thing for the philippines. with the japanese and south koreans and he's in japan now at the g-7 meeting, yeah, with the japanese, it's a little more complicated. because they already contribute several billion dollars a year to the housing of american troops. and this, the argue that they need to contribute more is not a new one. but when i lived in japan and in the years since,-of-ree time it has come up in congress, someone from the pentagon has sort of taken the members of congress
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aside and said well look, if you do the numbers, let's say we pulled these troops back to the unitied states mainland or even to gu am, we would end up paying more for their housing and several billion dollars more than we pay today. so the threat that they-- you would pull back out of japan would probably be more expensive to the u.s. than the current situation. >> what do they think in asia when they hear mr. trump say he's not against japan having a nuclear weapon. >> you know, it's interesting. he said that in the interview, that maggie and i did with him. and he also said it about south korea. he did not then repeat that in his foreign policy speech. and you haven't heard him talk about it since. now he came to it after i asked him in the course of that interview, would you, if you are going to pull back from the pacific, both of these countries are going to get more nervous that our nuclear umbrella no longer covers them.
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that we wouldn't be willing to come to their defense against china or north korea. and so would you have any objection if they built their own new nuclear weapons which the right wing in both countries have periodically argues for. and after i pause i said no, i wouldn't have any problem with that. but i think it's interesting he hasn't repeated it since. so i'm wondering if he is beginning to reconsider whether he would want to encourage countries who are signatories to the nuclear nonprolive raise treaty to break that trety. >> there are also historical considerations here. the president said that on friday he will go to hiroshima. >> that's right. it's going to be a fascinating trip. when i lived in japan, no american official while sitting, even the u.s. ambassador in japan, would go to hiroshima during the commemoration of the bombing on august 6th, then the later bombing in nag sackee. and you have seen-- nag sacki. you have seen president obama be
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willing to do some things that traditionally american presidents have not done. he's been to myanmar twice. a place no american president had gone bmplet he certainly was willing to reach out to the iranians in a way that others had not before. >> rose: cuba. >> and cuba for sure. and now you're seeing him say look, we can take on directly the fact that we bombed hiroshima and nagsacki. the question in watching his talk in hiroshima is two fold. first we know he's going to avoid an apology. i think he said publicly there are no apologies for what the u.s. did. but there are still two completely opposite interntions of history. that go around the hiroshima bombing. if you walk into that museum that is outside the surviving dome that the president will be advice iling, you get a version of history in japanese are
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walking around hiroshima. there is no context of the war. and suddenly the bomb is dropped and this huge human tragedy opens up. if you talk to americans about this, if you look at the exhibits at the smithsonian around the he nola gay that came up at the 50th anniversary and survived to some degree in one of the smithsonian museums here in washington, what you get is a version in which the decision to drop the bomb ended upending the war and saving tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of american lives. at both of these are a little bit twisted to our, everybody's own interests. there are many who believe that the reason the japanese sur rendered in 1945 had more to do with their fear that as soon as russia entered the japanese side of the war, and they were beginning to do that, they could be invaded by the russians from the north and the u.s. from the
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south. and that may have had more to do with it. but certainly there is a version of the events which i tend to subscribe to that the decision to bomb in hiroshima probably saved tens if not hundreds of thousands of lives. >> rose: that was-- there was also the question of okinawa, the prime minister of japan reminded the president, that was standing together, that there was great anger in japan over an early incident in which a subcontractor had killed a japanese woman, a young japanese woman. that is still part of the conversation and the debate about whether there ought to be an american presence in okinawa. >> there has been a long running set of issues about okinawa. one set has been, you eluded to is that periodically there have been extraordinarily tragic
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encounters between some of the american service men and local okinawan. and there were, you know, many back in the '80s and '90s. there have been more in recent times. i'm not sure that they are happening at any greater rate than any other place american soldiers are based. but certainly it is big headlines in japan when that happens. there is a second issue which is that the americans have said we'll reduce the presence on okinawa but you have to then come up with an alternative location for the troops to be located. to be based within japan. and while the japanese have promised to do that and laid out plans for it, they haven't gone ahead with them. they haven't gone ahead with them because there is a great tension within japan between the people of okinawa who feel that they are taking on the biggest burden of having recruits there. a historic burden that comes back to the fact that the united
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states handed okinawa back only in the 1960st, long after japan itself had been freed of the american occupation. and the fact that there is also always rivalry between the japanese on the main islands and the okinawans, where the main islands do not want to take on this u.s. presence. and there are all kinds of environmental issues that have come up as well, including the survive ability of the reefs around okinawa if air bases are expanded out into the ocean. >> rose: and this final point, should the japanese prime minister, you know, have made this case while he was standing with the american president? >> well, whether he needed to make it in public, i don't know. but certainly this is a long-running issue. i remember this case being made to george h-w bish to bill clinton, to george w. bush. so i'm not-- i don't really see the issue of whether or not this
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was an effort by prime minister abe to embarrass president obama. this has been one of the main sources of discussion betweened united states and japan for decades. >> i'm not sure anyone would suggest it was an effort to embarrass president obama. i wouldn't think that it would do that but the question is, was that the right forum to do it in the end. even if it-- even if it didn't bother the president. >> yeah, it may not have been. but you know, abe has got his own domestic politics on these issues. and i think had he not brought it up, it would probably have been difficult for him. i think the harder part for kim to navigate is going to be what does he have to do after the president visits hiroshima. there has been no japanese prime minister who has gone to pearl harbor. >> if you go, if you go off of the hiroshima coast to an island that basically has the equivalent of the japanese annapolis or old japanese
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annapolis, there is a wonderful small museum there to the-- to the memory of what they call the heroes of pearl harbor. and those would be the japanese airmen who went over on the raid and were shot down and never came back. so there is a mythology that the japanese have about pearl harbor and you know, one of the interesting questions is after the president is done doing what he does, at hiroshima, is it time for a japanese prime minister to then show up at pearl harbor and explain that in a historical context as well. >> such as it is, with wars where there are winners and losers. clearly the united states is troubled by north korea. was it a subject there? if so, how did it play out? >> north korea is usually a by lateral subject between the u.s. and japan and the u.s. and south korea. the most interesting thing that is happening in the next few
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weeks is that there is going to be a joint training drill for dealing with north korea that has japan and south korea and the u.s. all together in it. and since the jeetion and the south koreans have had a very difficult time talking to each other, working with each other on this question, that itself sends something of a message to the north koreans. now we reported on a story that i did from seoul a few weeks agatha the north koreans have, according to american and south korean intelligence, have finally mastered the technology of putting a nuclear weapon on a short and interimmediate atrange missile. they have not tested this yet. but the intelligence agencies all believe they now know how to do this. they do not yet, they believe, know how to put it on a long-range missile that could reach the united states. but if it can reach american forces in south korea, american forces in japan, if it can reach
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just about any city in japan and south korea, that seems to raise the stakes considerably at a time that we're worried about the stability of kim jungun, the north korean leader. and i would say that if there has been a single area in which president obama has made virtually throw progress and probably leaving the situation worse than he found it in asia, it's in the north korean side. while the u.s. was able to negotiate with the iranians, it has never even gotten a conversation going with the north koreans. i'm not sure there is any chance that will happen between now. >> rose: david saninger, thank you for stepping off a plane and coming directly to see us. get some sleep. we look forward to seeing you soon. >> thank you, charlie. good to be with you. >> rose: david saninger in washington. we'll be right back. sairns ronan sheer. she received her first oscar
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nomination at the age of 13 for her performance in atonement. earlier this year she received an oscar nomination for brooklyn, a.o. scott writes that ronan has groan from an uncannily intelligent child act actor into a screen performer with remarkable force and sensitivity. she is currently making her broadway debut in the revival of arthur miller's "the crucible" she plays abigail williams the vengful teenage girl who fuels mass paranoia in the midst of the salem witch trials. i'm pleased to have her at this table for the first time. welcome. >> thank you very much. >> rose: tell me about abigail, the character you inhabit. >> she's very complicated, i have to say. it is funny cuz it's been something that has been on my mind the last two years. i signed up two years ago to play abigail. >> rose: when it is on your mind, what that does that mean. >> it means i'm obsess-- obsessively thinking about it, have dreams it, about
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the wake unin a cold sweat. >> rose: really. >> yeah, because it is my first time on staifnlgt i was terrified, really up until two weeks ago i have been terrified. >> rose: but you feel comfortable now. >> i do. yeah. i mean i think no matter what, because it's the very first production that i'm involved in, i literally have never been on stage before, so i'm always going to have nerves when i go on stage. i'm never going to be completely comfortable. maybe is tha say good thing. >> rose: didn't you say you didn't want to go until you were 21. >> i wanted to wait until i was 21 or 22. >> rose: because? >> because i didn't train and even though i don't think you need that, to you know, be a good actor, necessarily, i think with theater, the technical side of it is a much bigger part of the, you know, the performance. and what you deliver every night.
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and to not know how to breathe or project or, even just make a line work in a hundred different ways every single night. you would kind of be a bit lost i think if you were to do a play. i didn't want to do it when i was too young. >> rose: very interesting, make a line work in a hundred different ways. >> yeah, which you can do. >> rose: you can give us an example of that that comes to mind. just think of a theme from the play. >> i thi think really what the very first line that i-- one of the very first lines that i have with paris when i'm saying to him, you know, the rumor of witchcraft saul but, i think you deny it yourself, that is something that can be played in so many different ways depenning on the type of abigail you are bringing to life. so for me, and the way eva wanted me to do it, when we were rehearsing. >> rose: avenue etcha the director. >> yeah, is that she is someone who is very self-assured, even though she is only 16, 17.
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she is kind of wise for her years in some waysk i think. and she stands and she can stand on her own quite well. there are so many different scenarios in the play where i actually come face to face with one of the main male characters. and sort of talk them down. and so that's the type of young girl she is. so with a line like that, you can play it as a sort of self-possessed young girl or someone who is quite nervous or someone who is anxious. and even though, you know, quite a strong foundation has been laid out now at this age because i have done it so much, no matter what, every night a reading that you give of a simple line like that is going to be completely different. >> rose: is there any similarity between your thought process of your character and the character from atonement. >> yes, it is slarks i have to saism i feel like abigail is an
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older version, if she had been lead away with more as she got older. i think they are both incredibly intelligent young women. and-- . >> rose: who knew what they were doing? >> no, i done think they did i think abigail is more of an idea of the repercussions of her actions and her words. and briany, i think briany chose not to see the truth because she was young and there was definitely confusion that was involved. her motivation to do what she did. i think with abigail sthes' got more of a clear sort of focus. she knows what she wants. she want wanting-- so she thinks she wants john proctor. an that's her motivation. whereas i think briany is just sort of scared and confused.
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the only thing really that that girl could have relied on was her imagination because she didn't really have anyone else. >> rose: did you talk to the author of atonement? >> yes. we got on really well. have you had him on the show. >> rose: often. >> he is amazing. and i'm actually doing on-- another one of his novels at the end. year. and he's amazing. and we, it's not very often that you have authors of books that are being adapted for film that are very kind of supportive of the film's adaption. >> rose: wasn't that true with brooklyn. >> yes, we were very lucky with kolem as well. have i been very lucky. but you don't always get that. and i get it, it is their baby and it's their work. a book is so incredibly different, i think when it comes to the journey that a reader takes versus an audience member, you know. and but ian came on set a few times and i remember i showed him around the set. i showed him how the camera works and things like that.
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even though i'm sure he knew how cameras work. but yairks he's lovely. >> rose: take a look at this. this is arthur miller on this program talking about the crucible in 2002. >> well, i think the play is dealing with the disintegration of a society. it's a play about paranoia and hysteria. and i imagine that people are reacting to it because they feel similar things nowk namely that an attack can come from anywhere. which is what was happening in salem. that they weren't quite sure why. that they weren't sure what they would do or what they should do. it's all up in the air. and in this play that's the way it is. it is a play about a town that
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is simply exploding in fear. >> it has a lot in common with shakespeare's plays. it does a thing that the theater does very well, which is feel for the whole society it takes a micros could am. it is possible for the whole society on a stage, that is one the attractive things about theater. you can put a group of people on a stage, of various levels and social classes, and it stands for a whole society. and this is what shake speers does when he goes from the top to the bottom. and also what arthur does in his play is to-- come from scenes of great intimacy between two people, two scenes which involve the entire society there on stage. so it's the epic scale of it, the language, is of course in a sense shakespearean. and arthur has steeped himself in shakespeare. and in the transkripts of the trial, and in the king james bible which came out, you know,
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about 70 years before these people. and these people, their language would be very, very informed by that. and it's a language of huge muse you can larrity and immense energy. the play is wired. and when the first run-through when we were sitting slightly dazed at the force of the play, arthur said in slightly we mulessed way, this is a young man's play. i couldn't write this now. because of the sheer muscular energy of the play. >> rose: what informed you in terms of your performance? >> it really was a process. because of the way eva works, it's very, very specific to his production. you probably never work with anyone like evo again. it's very gradual. so we didn't go in on the first day with a very clear idea of what we were doing. i had just-- i had just gone over the play an he wanted us
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all off book on day one. so all i really had was the text and it is so true what richard says. like there is a kind of miss you-- muscularity, there say real poetry to the text. and it's so far removed from how we speak now that it is almost like you are doing shakespeare. so you really do disappear into that world as soon as you kind of commit yourself to the text. but it was a number of different elements that came together. really the costume and the look of the character and all of us just kind of going over the text, over and over and over again for weeks. >> rose: this is what you told new york magazine. you are surrounded by this fairly cold community with rules for everything, and she's a teenager becoming a sexual create you are. but she's still a child in some ways. >> is that what i said. >> rose: yes. >> i do, yeah, i think again
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fear is the driving force in this play. no matter what production you see, i feel like the one thing that should always be apparent is that there is such an air of fear in this community. and no matter what, even like with what is going on now in america, in particular. and in europe. fear drives people to do things that they wouldn't usually do. >> rose: you mean politic, of america, politics of europe today. >> totally. and even to be honest just in personal relationships. i think between people, when you feel like you are being attacked, more often than not, unless you are a hero like john proctor or a heroin like elizabeth, you will shift the plane or-- blame or you will panic and move the attention on to someone else. and that is what is constantly happening in this play. but one of the things that really fascinated me and it's what it focuses on a lot in her book as well, are kind of brought to my attention was that these young girls that are the ones who integrate the whole
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sort of attack on these people, are incredibly emotional because they are going through a very physical and very emotional shift in their lives. and the biggest that they will probably ever go through. and they're discovering sex for the first time. and i think with abigail in particular, i kind of, i mean she behaves in an awful way, of course. but i don't blame her for reacting in the way she does. i mean she has had her innocence taken from her by this man. and who i'm sure promised her many things when they were together. regardless of how long that affair lasted for. and you know, being a young girl, you know, his idea of romant civil was probably still alive and well, ran with that and really took that to mean that they were committed to one another. and when that is taken away from
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her, an when that sort of, it's almost like her main purpose is being taken away from her. suddenly she's like all of the other children in the community again, you know. when she had him, she was something else. she was something higher than the rest of them. and so she starts to panic. >> it added meaning to her life, and it is being taken away. >> yeah. >> let's talk about you. you came here, i mean your parents came here, your mother. and your father, your father was an actor, came here to pursue a career in acting. >> he actually didn't. he became an actor over here. >> rose: he came, oh, i see. >> he was like discovered in a bar that he worked in. >> rose: the way he looked or. >> no, i mean, he is a good looking man. but i think he is very, very funny and very charismatic. and irish people in general are entertainers. >> rose: did you want to be like him? is that what got you into acting i don't think i did it because i wanted to be like him in that
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sense. i mean i didn't grow up with the notion of like wanting to be an actor-- . >> rose: you went back to ireland when you were three. >> yeah. and he became an actor when we were new york. then when i was three we moved back home to ireland. and he continued to work. and i think when i was about maybe seven or something, he was doing this short film, this art house film in dublin somewhere. and they needed a kid to dress up as a clown, of course. or lack half clown half human or something very avant-garde like that and they needed a kid to do it. so he asked me to do it. and it is so funny because i was never the type of kid that was into like dressing up or using face paint or anything like that. the only person i pretended to be was jean butler from river dance. she was like the girl in river dance when i was growing up. so i always wanted to be like her. but apart from that, i never did anything like that. so i wasn't really too
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enthusiastic about it. and i persuaded me to do it because they needed a kid. >> rose: did you love it. >> as soon as i got on to the film set, i just-- i felt really at home straight away. >> rose: how old when you did atonement. >> i was 12. and then there was just-- there was this shift. even 12 is very young to know you what wanted to do i was very lucky. but there was a shift that happened with that film. because i was suddenly put into this world of incredible people, and people who are really wonderful and brilliant at what they do. and it was such a serious subject matter. and yet we were having so much fun doing it. and still getting the work done. and this deep, deep love for acting and being on a film set is shall it kind of blossomed from there i think. >> rose: and i want to ask the question, why do you think you have been so successful at such a young age? is there an answer to that? >> i think a lot of it has to do with luck, i really do.
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>> rose: opportunity. >> yeah. i think you have to be z you know, you have to be half disee sent at what you do, i suppose, hopefully i am. >> rose: otherwise you wouldn't be asked again. >> yeah, yeah. and also another thing that a lot of people don't really mention to much is that you need to be respectful of the other people that you are working with. because eventually, if you lose your head or are disrespectful to the people around you, that word of mouth gets passed on to other people, you know. people talk. >> rose: they don't want to be around you. >> and you won't be hired again. so i was very lucky that i had two really terrific parents, one of whom was very experienced when it came to films. and new the etiquette and how to prepare and all that sort of stuff. and the other parent, my mother who just, she-- i was able to sort of soak up all the goodness of being around these wonderful people.
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but i also wasn't ruined by it either at an early age. i was still kept innocent. one thing that she said when i was a kid, someone was going to go an make me a cup of tea on set and she stopped them. >> rose: all of a sudden now are you a star in the crucible here on broadway, brooklyn was terrific and you got a nomination. where do you want to go? >> i just want to keep working, really. >> rose: you love it. >> i love it so much. ri i really do. >> rose: what do you love? >> well, so the acting itself is obviously, you know, the reason why i love what i do, so much. and it is, yes, it's kind of a huge part of me. but to act on stage versus acting on film is completely different. i think it's completely different. >> rose: and more satisfying no, i think they're both eck equally satisfying for different reasons. because i think you get an
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intimacy when are you on a film set that you don't jessly get as much in theater. but at the same time when are you on stage with someone, like even with you and i now, there's no one else in this room except for you and me. and you don't get that space in the same way when you reason oy film set. there are a hundred other people there and cameras everywhere and wires and things like that. that puts a lot of people off. but i've grown up with that. so i love working in that kind of environment. >> rose: it's great to have you. >> thank you. >> rose: much success. >> thank you very much. >> rose: thank you for joining us. see you next time. forb for more about this program and early episodes visit us online at and charlie
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captioning sponsored by rose communications captioned by media access group at wgbh >> rose: funding for "charlie rose" has been provided by: >> and by bloomberg, a provider of multimedia news and information services worldwide.
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